Some people argue that Ibn Taymiyyah retracted his stance on Tawassul being haram and that he also did not deem all forms of Istighatha to be Shirk based on an event that took place in his life.
Ibn Taymiyya RH wrote a Hadith in his book Sirat al Mustaqeem.....
"A person came to the blessed grave of the Messenger of Allah ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ) and requested food from the Prophet ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) and sat down. After a while a Hashmi [a member of the Prophet’s – صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ] family came to him. He had with him a tray of food, and said, “this food has been sent by the Prophet, ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) and with it he gave a message: Eat it and leave from here because whoever loves us does not make this kind of desire”. (Iqtida as-Sirat al Mustaqim, pg. 290).
He RH also wrote.....
"Some people came to the grave of our Prophet Mohammad ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ) and requested something, and their needs were fulfilled. In the same way, the pious people can also fulfill the needs of people – and we do not deny this." (Iqtida as Sirat al-Mustaqim, – pg. 373)
Did ibn Taymiyya RH view istighatha as unproblematic based on these accounts?
I need to go back to the book to see what he immediately said before and after citing these narrations, but what he clearly says in the book is that sometimes Allah responds to the call of these individuals as a fitnah for them. And that getting your request answered isn't proof of its permissibility. Makes sense seeing how even kuffar get their requests answered as well.
Ibn Taymiyyah has too many clear statements prohibiting these actions. It's unacademic to ignore all those and selectively focus on these.
Assalamualaikum ustadh I just recently watched a discussion between Adnan Rashid and Daniel and the latter mentioned ibn Taymiyyah on making requests to Jinn. What was the Sheikh's actual stance? Daniel seems to argue that there is nuance and that it is not necessarily shirk Akbar
Scholars who permitted it permitted it as long as the request is permissible and is similar to requests made for human beings (e.g., grabbing something, helping him find something, etc.). Nothing about seeking help from them on things like unconditional supernatural assistance in tribulations and so on.
Some conditions for seeking help from them include that they be from among the Muslims and that the requester is the one who is in charge issuing commands, not that the requester is becoming subservient to the jinn so that the jinn reciprocate by doing favors.
Those who declared it haram saw the potential for this leading to shirk is too high of a probability since the jinn would demand worship and other sorts of haram things in return for their help. They also said that it's near to impossible to truly and genuinely tell which jinn is a kafir and believer and that the jinn could lie and deceive and slowly work their way to make the requester fall into shirk.
Anyways...
Just like the Imam Ahmad and angel story, this is disanalogous to the whole saint veneration thing since we do not claim that angels and jinns could be asked for anything similar to these juhhal ask their dead saints, nor would we approve of the level of humiliating servitude during the act of request similar to those exhibited by saint venerators.
I wonder what is the Islamically permissible method of communication with the Jinn. I assumed that any attempt to communicate would breach the barrier between our realms, which seems to be contrary to the laws of nature
Ibn Taymiyya RH wrote a Hadith in his book Sirat al Mustaqeem.....
"A person came to the blessed grave of the Messenger of Allah ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ) and requested food from the Prophet ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) and sat down. After a while a Hashmi [a member of the Prophet’s – صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ] family came to him. He had with him a tray of food, and said, “this food has been sent by the Prophet, ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) and with it he gave a message: Eat it and leave from here because whoever loves us does not make this kind of desire”. (Iqtida as-Sirat al Mustaqim, pg. 290).
He RH also wrote.....
"Some people came to the grave of our Prophet Mohammad ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ) and requested something, and their needs were fulfilled. In the same way, the pious people can also fulfill the needs of people – and we do not deny this." (Iqtida as Sirat al-Mustaqim, – pg. 373)
Did ibn Taymiyya RH view istighatha as unproblematic based on these accounts?
I need to go back to the book to see what he immediately said before and after citing these narrations, but what he clearly says in the book is that sometimes Allah responds to the call of these individuals as a fitnah for them. And that getting your request answered isn't proof of its permissibility. Makes sense seeing how even kuffar get their requests answered as well.
Ibn Taymiyyah has too many clear statements prohibiting these actions. It's unacademic to ignore all those and selectively focus on these.
Assalamualaikum ustadh I just recently watched a discussion between Adnan Rashid and Daniel and the latter mentioned ibn Taymiyyah on making requests to Jinn. What was the Sheikh's actual stance? Daniel seems to argue that there is nuance and that it is not necessarily shirk Akbar
Wa alaykum assalam,
Regarding the Jinn issue...
Scholars who permitted it permitted it as long as the request is permissible and is similar to requests made for human beings (e.g., grabbing something, helping him find something, etc.). Nothing about seeking help from them on things like unconditional supernatural assistance in tribulations and so on.
Some conditions for seeking help from them include that they be from among the Muslims and that the requester is the one who is in charge issuing commands, not that the requester is becoming subservient to the jinn so that the jinn reciprocate by doing favors.
Those who declared it haram saw the potential for this leading to shirk is too high of a probability since the jinn would demand worship and other sorts of haram things in return for their help. They also said that it's near to impossible to truly and genuinely tell which jinn is a kafir and believer and that the jinn could lie and deceive and slowly work their way to make the requester fall into shirk.
Anyways...
Just like the Imam Ahmad and angel story, this is disanalogous to the whole saint veneration thing since we do not claim that angels and jinns could be asked for anything similar to these juhhal ask their dead saints, nor would we approve of the level of humiliating servitude during the act of request similar to those exhibited by saint venerators.
A good study for you to check out on the jinn issue is this https://ia801005.us.archive.org/29/items/20190911_20190911_1133/%D8%AD%D9%83%D9%85%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A9%20%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%86%20%D9%81%D9%8A%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%AA.pdf
I wonder what is the Islamically permissible method of communication with the Jinn. I assumed that any attempt to communicate would breach the barrier between our realms, which seems to be contrary to the laws of nature
Ibn Kathir also authored a talkhees of ibn Taymiyyah’s refutation to al-Bakri