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Mark's avatar

I feel like this post was pointless as even they do not make "unconditional" "individualized" takfir on individual ash'aris. I believe they say ash'ari belief system is one of disbelief due to their methodology in aqidah necessitating rejecting God's attributes such as ascension and speaking if and when He wills (because these imply spatiality and temporality respectively). To them discussion should not be about "are ash'aris ahl-as-sunnah?" but "are ash'aris muslims?". As for individuals, if someone says the shahada, prays towards our qibla and eats our meat then he is a muslim intil it is proven that he holds the beliefs of asharis while being conscious that it plainly contradicts clear and abundant nusus from Qur'an and Sunna.

A more useful topic of post would have been is the ashari system of beliefs and ashari methodology kufr (i.e., contradictory to the essential teachings of islam) or is it simply a heretical belief system which is nonetheless within the fold of Islam.

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Afiq's avatar

What are your thoughts on the Shaykh al-Ḥanabilah of Kuwait, Sh. Abdullah ibn Khalaf al-Dahyan (رَحِمَهُ الله) [d. 1349 H] stating in his commentary of Mukhtasar Lawami’ al-Anwar that Asharis and Maturidis are apart of the saved sect:

"…The creed of the saved sect, he [Ḥasan al-Shattī] said: They are the Asharīs, the Māturīdīs and Ahl al-Hadīth. Some of the scholars said: The saved sect is Ahl al-Hadīth, meaning the Atharīs, the Asharīs and the Māturīdīs. Thus if you say the wording of the hadīth necessitates negation of multiplicity, when he [the Prophet ﷺ] said: My nation shall split into 73 sects, all of them are in Hell except one. The one that is upon what I and my Companions are upon. The response to this is that the three groups are one group, as they are all Ahl al-Hadīth, for indeed the Asharīs and Māturīdīs do not reject the ahādīth and do not disregard them, and either they do tafwīd of them or they do tawīl, and each one of them is Ahl al-Hadīth. Therefore, the three are one sect due to their following the narrations and accepting the reports. As opposed to the other groups, for indeed they gave preference to their intellect and opposed that which is transmitted, thus they are the people of innovation, misguidance, opposition and ignorance. And Allāh the Exalted knows best."

[Tabsīr al-Qāni p. 75]

The implication here is if all three groups are part of the saved sect then them sticking to their beliefs and views despite repeated correction and rebuke doesn't warrant excommunication.

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